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Post Info TOPIC: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


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Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


First off I want to say Hello to all of you and I'm glad someone started a site for us meat heads. I am sure we all have thoughts on the question I'm about to ask. I have been tasked with making up a written final test for our meat apprentice program. Our program is lacking but we have made a comment to improve it. Where the hands on skills we do very well in teaching, but we need to do better job of making sure they understand the "why". All the questions don't have to be serious. I'm sure we all had the thought of "how could they not know that" or "I wish someone told me that". Especially in todays market place many things are not passed on to the next round of meat people.



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Hi there Frog and welcome. I imagine you will get more feedback about your post. Off the top of my head I would say that your test should include the following.

1) Questions about personal hygiene.

2) Questions about proper food safety and sanitation, like what chemicals need to be used.

3) Meeting certain physical requirements like lifting.

4) At least having a high school education or GED.

5) Knife sharpening skill, 

6) Leaning the company cutting specifications. 

7) How to use equipment and how to set  up and break down.

8) Customer Service skills 

9) Understanding of the ordering system

10) Knowing how to read a scale, and how to wrap meat items.

11) Understanding department labeling.

12) Understanding proper temperature controls in the coolers, cases and cutting rooms.

13) Understanding company rules and regulations, if a union shop understanding their rules.

14) How to check in deliveries and understand box weights

15) Know about protective gear.

16) An understanding of taking inventory and its importance.

I know you will get more feedback but this is what I can think of at the moment. You did say you have the good hands on skills that is why I didn't put anything down about that.

 

 



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Phil ( coalcracker ) Verduce

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Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Great points. After spending some time reading posts, I'm really glad I found this site. I work for a 18 store chain, with 2 formats, we are determined to keep cutting meat in house. We see as a great advantage over many other companies. That being said we need to make sure we put out the type cutters that we can show to upper management that proves it's worth the cost.



-- Edited by Frog on Friday 28th of August 2015 08:44:54 PM

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Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Test their customer services skills. Present different situations involving customers and the questions they might ask. Ask the employees how they would handle each situation. Possibly give multiple choice answers.

Test their knowledge on how much to  trim steaks and chops with multiple choice again.  

How many times to run the trim through the grinder or how long to mix it. 

Are certain safety gloves or equipment required when using a knife?  Those would fit nicely into a true or false category.

Do they help keep an eye on cooler and case temperatures?  Test them on what those temperature should be.

What to do when a piece of equipment is not working properly.  Make it multiple choice (for example: call 911,  report to your dept manager, page the store manager, unplug and lock it out..etc.)

 Test their knowledge on meat discoloration.  (for example "What color is on beef when it starts to go bad  (A. Brown, B. Red C. Green, D. Pink)

Welcome to the Meat Cutter's Club.  We are happy to have you with us.  



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Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


It used to be when the boss was off on vacation and you ran the shop on your own, it depended what it looked like when he got back. Thats how it was for me when I was at the IGA. Where I am now, it depended on the pay scale and time in. I got the Journeyman pay after a year of PT work, though I had more knowledge and ability of the guys i was working with.
But Fdarn and Coalcracker make valid and correct points and statements, and I would follow their lead on this.



-- Edited by kbraker510 on Saturday 29th of August 2015 06:39:06 AM

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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Admittedly we never had a written test to pass an apprentice to Journeyman status, but I certainly see the value in it. When I took my test it was given by my meat manager, witnessed by his second man, and the president of our union local (I liked the guy, and sorry that he finished his career in federal prison as did every other president of our local during the 28 years I was in the trade).  Lots of great suggestions here, but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


jimhenry2000 wrote:

Admittedly we never had a written test to pass an apprentice to Journeyman status, but I certainly see the value in it. When I took my test it was given by my meat manager, witnessed by his second man, and the president of our union local (I liked the guy, and sorry that he finished his career in federal prison as did every other president of our local during the 28 years I was in the trade).  Lots of great suggestions here, but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Fred,
 Where are you nowadays?  Maybe we should do lunch.
fdarn wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:

Admittedly we never had a written test to pass an apprentice to Journeyman status, but I certainly see the value in it. When I took my test it was given by my meat manager, witnessed by his second man, and the president of our union local (I liked the guy, and sorry that he finished his career in federal prison as did every other president of our local during the 28 years I was in the trade).  Lots of great suggestions here, but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  


 



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


jimhenry2000 wrote:
Fred,
 Where are you nowadays?  Maybe we should do lunch.
fdarn wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:

Admittedly we never had a written test to pass an apprentice to Journeyman status, but I certainly see the value in it. When I took my test it was given by my meat manager, witnessed by his second man, and the president of our union local (I liked the guy, and sorry that he finished his career in federal prison as did every other president of our local during the 28 years I was in the trade).  Lots of great suggestions here, but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  


 


 I am in Tuscola County. I get down to madison heights every couple weeks for a few days.  maybe we can do that sometime.  



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


fdarn wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:

..............but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  


 Another method, according to the book Sharpening Made Easy by Steve Bottorff, is to taste the blade for sharpness. Lick the edge of the blade. If it tastes like metal, it's not sharp. If the blade tastes like blood you know it's sharp. 



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


For a written test, you could ask the student to list all (some of) the cuts you could get from certain primal's. Or list all the primal's on a beef.
 
How many flank steaks are on one beef?
 
what's the advantages and disadvantages of knifing vs saw cutting?
 
how about some multiple choice questions like this?
 
How many ribs are in a whole beef
a 13
b 26
c 24
d 10
 
How many ribs are in a side of beef
a 13
b 12
c  14
d 8
 
how many ribs are in a chuck?
a 5
b 4
 c 6
d 7
 
How many ribs are in a round?
a 4
b 7
c 0
 
Which item is not found on the forequarter
A skirt steak
b brisket
c tenderloin
d short ribs
 
Which item is not part of the short loin
a flank steak
b porterhouse
c t-bone
d tenderloin
 
Are most store managers jerks
yes
no
ask me again in 3 years
 
 
What do you say to a female employee has a peek a boo blouse?
a good morning
b good afternoon
c good evening
d nothing
e any of the above
 
Where do you hide your beverage if you work in a shop that doesn't allow it?
a put it in plain view on the block and tell anyone who says something to go to hell
b under a rack on the floor in the cooler
c in a box of meat in the cooler
d on the floor and under the block in the cutting room
e up high, behind some foam trays
f other


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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Jack Daniels was always on the floor under the block. But that was then, not sure about the right answer  today...



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


I was finding bottles of whiskey in meat boxes as late as 2002. I also had a meat manager who got fired for going out back every day to get drunk then he threw the empty bottles on the roof.

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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Burgermeister wrote:
fdarn wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:

..............but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  


 Another method, according to the book Sharpening Made Easy by Steve Bottorff, is to taste the blade for sharpness. Lick the edge of the blade. If it tastes like metal, it's not sharp. If the blade tastes like blood you know it's sharp. 


 Do you actually do that?



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


fdarn wrote:
Burgermeister wrote:
fdarn wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:

..............but I'm struggling to understand how Coalcracker's suggestions #3 and #5 could be expressed as part of a written test.

Jim


 Well Jim, we used to test our knife edge on a sheet of paper.  


 Another method, according to the book Sharpening Made Easy by Steve Bottorff, is to taste the blade for sharpness. Lick the edge of the blade. If it tastes like metal, it's not sharp. If the blade tastes like blood you know it's sharp. 


 Do you actually do that?


 I would, but I don't like the taste of blood. I usually don't need to test the knife. If I do, I'll shave off a little arm hair with it and that means it's ok. 



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


This might be part of what Coalcraker means on item 10. Super simple math, you'd think. But we have a new clerk that needs help figuring out what three quarters of a pound is when a customer asks for it, or eight ounces, or 4 ounces. I'd think it's common knowledge that you get from life experience, but this guy has to keep asking. The ounces, maybe that's excusable, but why doesn't he know that three quarters (of 100) means?



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Know that splitting frozen pig feet is 90% of lost fingers down south. Thumb or index, usually. Use guard or a large stomper for a handle, the frozen feet jump!
Know all the common safety mistakes, small with big consequences.


LOL @ If the blade tastes like blood you know it's sharp.


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Allen Scott


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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


As journeyman meat cutter suggestions from CoalCracker are completely accurate. But forget Journeyman's test what about basic meat cutting skills. I find the cutters I work with claim anywhere from 10 - 20 years experience - and it takes 3-4 weeks before they understand how to cut a single item. Very frustrating to say the least. Cutters these days do even understand what it is to properly merchandise a certain cut of meat and what is expected in its yield. When it comes to the numbers both young and old have an extreme difficulty understanding profitability. So, to me testing a cutters skills along with understanding the expected return - is extremely important

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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


As journeyman meat cutter suggestions from CoalCracker are completely accurate. But forget Journeyman's test what about basic meat cutting skills. I find the cutters I work with claim anywhere from 10 - 20 years experience - and it takes 3-4 weeks before they understand how to cut a single item. Very frustrating to say the least. Cutters these days do even understand what it is to properly merchandise a certain cut of meat and what is expected in its yield. When it comes to the numbers both young and old have an extreme difficulty understanding profitability. So, to me testing a cutters skills along with understanding the expected return - is extremely important



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


I wasn't really into drinking on the job but many old timers kept a bottle under the block. The exception was that the Wednesday before Thanksgiving everyone got loaded in the cutting room, including the store manager. At one phase of my career though we all went to lunch together and many would have 6 beers on their lunch hour.  To fit in, I would have one or two. My style was to have two double martinis every evening when I got home.  Never wanted to drink at work.
fdarn wrote:

I was finding bottles of whiskey in meat boxes as late as 2002. I also had a meat manager who got fired for going out back every day to get drunk then he threw the empty bottles on the roof.


 



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


LOL!!  As to store managers, we referred to the management training program as "dick school", another reason I turned it down.
For the female employee question, the correct answer was, "Let's have a drink after work."  !!
Burgermeister wrote:
For a written test, you could ask the student to list all (some of) the cuts you could get from certain primal's. Or list all the primal's on a beef.
 
How many flank steaks are on one beef?
 
what's the advantages and disadvantages of knifing vs saw cutting?
 
how about some multiple choice questions like this?
 
How many ribs are in a whole beef
a 13
b 26
c 24
d 10
 
How many ribs are in a side of beef
a 13
b 12
c  14
d 8
 
how many ribs are in a chuck?
a 5
b 4
 c 6
d 7
 
How many ribs are in a round?
a 4
b 7
c 0
 
Which item is not found on the forequarter
A skirt steak
b brisket
c tenderloin
d short ribs
 
Which item is not part of the short loin
a flank steak
b porterhouse
c t-bone
d tenderloin
 
Are most store managers jerks
yes
no
ask me again in 3 years
 
 
What do you say to a female employee has a peek a boo blouse?
a good morning
b good afternoon
c good evening
d nothing
e any of the above
 
Where do you hide your beverage if you work in a shop that doesn't allow it?
a put it in plain view on the block and tell anyone who says something to go to hell
b under a rack on the floor in the cooler
c in a box of meat in the cooler
d on the floor and under the block in the cutting room
e up high, behind some foam trays
f other

 



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Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


Great answers. The people that take this test will have to prove themselves on the block before they get this. This will be more to prove knowledge to upper management, we give a $2 a hour raise. Also help give the knowledge of the times pass, as we only use box cuts.



-- Edited by Frog on Sunday 30th of August 2015 09:49:21 PM

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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


jimhenry2000 wrote:
LOL!!  As to store managers, we referred to the management training program as "dick school", another reason I turned it down.
For the female employee question, the correct answer was, "Let's have a drink after work."  !!


 

 


 Yes, you're right, but the reason I wrote it down is I know a store manager who got demoted to checker (lucky he wasn't fired) and transferred out when he did something other than a-e. The female (according to the rumor), sued and won $50,000.00



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


No doubt, but times are different now.  My era was 40 years ago and you wouldn't believe what went on in the coolers, mostly by the generation prior to mine! 
So what was said to her?
Burgermeister wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:
LOL!!  As to store managers, we referred to the management training program as "dick school", another reason I turned it down.
For the female employee question, the correct answer was, "Let's have a drink after work."  !!


 

 


 Yes, you're right, but the reason I wrote it down is I know a store manager who got demoted to checker (lucky he wasn't fired) and transferred out when he did something other than a-e. The female (according to the rumor), sued and won $50,000.00


 



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RE: Looking for suggestions, Journeyman test


jimhenry2000 wrote:
 
So what was said to her?


 The unfortunate thing about this case is the lady sort of made it ok. She set the precedent and this poor guy paid the price. Maybe she was having a bad day. Maybe she didn't like this one individual. Maybe it was payback for the manager who wrote her up unfairly (which I can understand and agree with under the right circumstances). Maybe she set up a situation for a big payday? (supposedly this wasn't her first lawsuit). It was a plan? I don't know how these two got along. That's important. Sometimes what's ok for almost everyone else isn't ok for him. I was around when she told at least one joke involving sex. I liked the joke. No one was offended.  Super fun to work with and have around. This lady was very flirtatious, at least with me, and it even made me question my judgement for not asking her "out for a drink" like Jimhenry suggested. "surely (just maybe) she might like me and want me" I thought. "no not me" I reassured myself. Have you ever regretted a "missed opportunity"? Well, that was one of mine. I'll never know.  I know she loved attention and I wasn't sure if she was just being herself, or was interested in me.

One day off she day off, she came in with tight thin super shear T-shirt/no bra. I don't know how often that happened. I appreciated it, but didn't say anything stupid. The manager in question was the type who was just one of the guys. Easy going, and will tell jokes and (when it's safe) will join in on conversations about how pretty the customer down the aisle is. He was cool with almost everyone. It's not what he said. It was what he did. The manager and employee were walking towards each other, or facing each other, and from several feet away, maybe 40, the manager stretched his arms out in front of him and made a squeezing motion with his hands. He didn't touch her, but he did make the motion. That's what got him in trouble. This wasn't on the day when she came in with that nice shirt. And even if it was, that still wouldn't have made a difference in what your allowed to do or say.



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