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apcowboy


Founder of The Meat Cutter's Club

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I need your feed back on Competition Rules
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I would appreciate some feed back on our competition rules, front page side bar or go here, http://www.meatcuttersclub.org/rules.htm

While I would like any feed back you care to give, " I'm Especially"  interested in feed back on this,  You will then have one hour and 15 mins to complete the entire job. There will be no added time allowed.

Please look over what they have to cut and tell me what amount of time you feel FAIR to cut these items.

Also take in account that to cut the pork loin they will using only a hand saw and meat cleaver



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Leon Wildberger

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Burgermeister


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apcowboy wrote:

.................Also take in account that to cut the pork loin they will using only a hand saw and meat cleaver......................

 and a knife?



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i am assuming you are refering to bone in pork loins. I have never used a handsaw in my life to cut meat and I imagine alot of younger cutters haven't either. So unless they used one to cut a pipe or something else before they probably have no idea how to use it. Some stores don't even have one. That goes for the meat cleaver too. I never used one to cut meat. i used them to pound nails though. I wouldn't be effective with that at all. I would be concerned that the younger cutters are not familiar with these tools at all.



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jimhenry2000


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Burgermeister wrote:
apcowboy wrote:

.................Also take in account that to cut the pork loin they will using only a hand saw and meat cleaver......................

 and a knife?

In my experience we used a well kept cleaver as a knife also, when cutting pork loins, veal loins, or beef ribs. Too much time to switch back and forth between knife and cleaver.

 



-- Edited by jimhenry2000 on Friday 28th of February 2014 10:48:25 PM

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jimhenry2000


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fdarn wrote:

i am assuming you are refering to bone in pork loins. I have never used a handsaw in my life to cut meat and I imagine alot of younger cutters haven't either. So unless they used one to cut a pipe or something else before they probably have no idea how to use it. Some stores don't even have one. That goes for the meat cleaver too. I never used one to cut meat. i used them to pound nails though. I wouldn't be effective with that at all. I would be concerned that the younger cutters are not familiar with these tools at all.

Fred,

The only thing I ever used a hand saw for was when breaking beef, to remove the short loin from a whole loin when breaking down a hindquarter, and to remove the rib when breaking a forequarter. The first shop I worked in(as an apprentice)  though we used an electric chainsaw.

 



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Burgermeister


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RE: I need your feed back on Competition Rules
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jimhenry2000 wrote:
Burgermeister wrote:
apcowboy wrote:

.................Also take in account that to cut the pork loin they will using only a hand saw and meat cleaver......................

 and a knife?

In my experience we used a well kept cleaver as a knife also, when cutting pork loins, veal loins, or beef ribs. Too much time to switch back and forth between knife and cleaver.

 



-- Edited by jimhenry2000 on Friday 28th of February 2014 10:48:25 PM

 I've never cut pork loins with a cleaver, but I've always assumed that's why they're called "chops". Because they used to be chopped with a cleaver. Is that true? But I had always thought they were knifed first. 

I don't know if there would be too much switching. If you knife a few loins and then switch to a cleaver, that's just one switch. It's not like you knife one chop, switch to a cleaver and then chop the bone of that one chop. 

I think I'll try this at work in the next few days. Cleaver only, no knife. It will be fun to try. I think my cleaver may be just right for the job. Just the right thickness, size and weight. 

Unless you have, as you put it "a well kept cleaver", I'd think thin chops would be hard to knife with a cleaver.

Some of the guys I work with cut lamb loin chops with a cleaver, between each vertebrae. I prefer to nick between the vertebrae with the band saw a tiny bit and then finish it with a knife.

We use hand saws once in a while at my store. To break beef. And sometimes if we have to remove the foreshanks from lamb, but aren't ready to break the lamb yet, we'll use a knife and hand saw.



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irishdude


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I've never cut pork loins with a cleaver, but I've always assumed that's why they're called "chops". Because they used to be chopped with a cleaver. Is that true? But I had always thought they were knifed first.

www.youtube.com/watch go to 16 mins in, this guy also used a handsaw in another part and explains when and why you use one.

I think its fair to have a rule to use a handsaw because it shows understanding of different textures and densities and it allows the competitors to do some research if they have not used one before a sign of enthusism.

besides its a state wide competition it would be like saying to a statewide woodworkers competition no need to use a chisel just use an electric router.

If anything it would be a way to give extra points to show skill and willingness to learn old stuff.



-- Edited by irishdude on Saturday 1st of March 2014 03:53:26 AM

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apcowboy


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you right Burgermeister, that is hand saw, cleaver and knife

and you do knife before cutting with saw or cleaver

the reason for hand saw, cleaver is a show of skill and plus the fact we can't come up with the time for every cutter to use a power saw lol

I'm sure many here in Georgia never seen a hand saw or cleaver but if they want a shot at the title and prizes & money I guess they need to learn those skills.

I would still like to hear more from ya'll about the time limit   " I'm Especially"  interested in feed back on this,  You will then have one hour and 15 mins to complete the entire job.



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Leon Wildberger

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I think an hour and 15 minutes is fair if you are judging by quality and letting them take their time to perfect the cuts, but if speed is part of the score then they should be able to complete it faster.

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jimhenry2000


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-- Edited by jimhenry2000 on Friday 28th of February 2014 10:48:25 PM

 I've never cut pork loins with a cleaver, but I've always assumed that's why they're called "chops". Because they used to be chopped with a cleaver. Is that true? But I had always thought they were knifed first. 

I don't know if there would be too much switching. If you knife a few loins and then switch to a cleaver, that's just one switch. It's not like you knife one chop, switch to a cleaver and then chop the bone of that one chop. 

I think I'll try this at work in the next few days. Cleaver only, no knife. It will be fun to try. I think my cleaver may be just right for the job. Just the right thickness, size and weight. 

Unless you have, as you put it "a well kept cleaver", I'd think thin chops would be hard to knife with a cleaver.

Some of the guys I work with cut lamb loin chops with a cleaver, between each vertebrae. I prefer to nick between the vertebrae with the band saw a tiny bit and then finish it with a knife.

We use hand saws once in a while at my store. To break beef. And sometimes if we have to remove the foreshanks from lamb, but aren't ready to break the lamb yet, we'll use a knife and hand saw.

 To be clear the clear was mainly used for lamb and veal loins and only used on pork for special orders, not production.  However for production we did use a power cleaver for pork loins. 

Can you even use a cleaver nowadays on a nylon cutting board?  I assume wooden blocks must be illegal by now....



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Burgermeister


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RE: I need your feed back on Competition Rules
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jimhenry2000 wrote:



-- Edited by jimhenry2000 on Friday 28th of February 2014 10:48:25 PM

 I've never cut pork loins with a cleaver, but I've always assumed that's why they're called "chops". Because they used to be chopped with a cleaver. Is that true? But I had always thought they were knifed first. 

I don't know if there would be too much switching. If you knife a few loins and then switch to a cleaver, that's just one switch. It's not like you knife one chop, switch to a cleaver and then chop the bone of that one chop. 

I think I'll try this at work in the next few days. Cleaver only, no knife. It will be fun to try. I think my cleaver may be just right for the job. Just the right thickness, size and weight. 

Unless you have, as you put it "a well kept cleaver", I'd think thin chops would be hard to knife with a cleaver.

Some of the guys I work with cut lamb loin chops with a cleaver, between each vertebrae. I prefer to nick between the vertebrae with the band saw a tiny bit and then finish it with a knife.

We use hand saws once in a while at my store. To break beef. And sometimes if we have to remove the foreshanks from lamb, but aren't ready to break the lamb yet, we'll use a knife and hand saw.

 To be clear the clear was mainly used for lamb and veal loins and only used on pork for special orders, not production.  However for production we did use a power cleaver for pork loins. 

Can you even use a cleaver nowadays on a nylon cutting board?  I assume wooden blocks must be illegal by now....

 We have wooden blocks where I work. 

What's a power cleaver?



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jimhenry2000


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Burgermeister wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:



-- Edited by jimhenry2000 on Friday 28th of February 2014 10:48:25 PM

 I've never cut pork loins with a cleaver, but I've always assumed that's why they're called "chops". Because they used to be chopped with a cleaver. Is that true? But I had always thought they were knifed first. 

I don't know if there would be too much switching. If you knife a few loins and then switch to a cleaver, that's just one switch. It's not like you knife one chop, switch to a cleaver and then chop the bone of that one chop. 

I think I'll try this at work in the next few days. Cleaver only, no knife. It will be fun to try. I think my cleaver may be just right for the job. Just the right thickness, size and weight. 

Unless you have, as you put it "a well kept cleaver", I'd think thin chops would be hard to knife with a cleaver.

Some of the guys I work with cut lamb loin chops with a cleaver, between each vertebrae. I prefer to nick between the vertebrae with the band saw a tiny bit and then finish it with a knife.

We use hand saws once in a while at my store. To break beef. And sometimes if we have to remove the foreshanks from lamb, but aren't ready to break the lamb yet, we'll use a knife and hand saw.

 To be clear the clear was mainly used for lamb and veal loins and only used on pork for special orders, not production.  However for production we did use a power cleaver for pork loins. 

Can you even use a cleaver nowadays on a nylon cutting board?  I assume wooden blocks must be illegal by now....

 We have wooden blocks where I work. 

What's a power cleaver?

 BM,

  A power cleaver is like a giant lunch meat slicer. I believe the circular blade is at least 3 foot in diameter. It has cylindricular tubes to drop 10-12 pork loins in. Pardon me but it's been 20 years so I can't describe exactly.  We would put several boxes of pork loins in the freezer for a couple hours to give them a good chill then place 2 boxes or pork loins in the power cleaver. The loins would spin at high speed and be fed into that massive blade. It would cut 10-12 pork loins into chops with no bone dust in about 5 minutes!



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