New member maburfor posted this question in the Welcome new members, I'm moving it here before it gets loss
ok i got a really big question to ask everyone i know this probable the wrong place but what exactly make you a journeyman cutter because i can cut meat using a saw or my knife but i'm still learning because there is no school were i live but i also don't want to be stuck as a clerk for the rest of my career is there a test i can take to prove i know what i am doing or is my work history good effort for my nest job ?????
in my opinion being a journeyman is nothing more than time spent. I have known quite a few so called "journeymen" meat cutters that are slow as molasses, their cuts look like road kill, their knowledge of the industry is pathetic and they have a work ethic to match. i love the argument.. "I have been cutting for over 30 years!" lol...well ya been doing it wrong for 30 years!
in Washington i believe it takes 5 years (but don't quote me on that) to become a "journeyman" pay wise. in King County you have to go thru a 2 year apprenticeship program....which is about 90% book work......terms, cutting tests, primals, merchandising and breaking charts.....all on paper.
at the risk of insulting everyone......in my opinion ANYONE can cut meat........you could train a monkey to cut meat......that being said....again, in my opinion a true journeyman takes pride in their craft....not just cutting or breaking, but merchandising, recipes, know how to cook each cut, portions per person, knowing current trends, knowing all the different names for the sub primals (a new york is called different names in different places), customer service, schematics, how to grind burger with the correct % of fat.....without using tube grind, gross pointing out your case, presentation, organization, sense of urgency......the list goes on an on.
granted, i don't know you from adam.....but the problem i have had with apprentices and culinary people, is that they think that just because they can cut up a new york strip.....they should be a journeyman. granted, if you don't have someone trained to take you under their wing, you are kinda screwed......but take the initiative to get as much info out there as possible.....the internet would help a lot, videos on how to cut, info on merchandising, recipes, cutting trends, organic vs free range vs natural......educate yourself.
i consider myself a JOURNEYMAN.......notice i did not say journey-woman.....blah! sorry if this is more than you were looking for....or not what you were looking for.....just feel very passionate about the topic.
Ron Jackson, hitting coach for the Boston Red Sox, when asked about David Ortiz, who at the time was a nobody, replied glibly, "You teach anybody to hit a ball; even a monkey."
Thanks guys but what do I put on my résumé to show the company's that I'm a step ahead of rest but still need training can I put down a meat cutter I mean the company can look at my résumé and tell how long I been doing this I'm going on 2 years and I no different company what different this and it no like I try to get a meat mrg job I just love to cut and see the customers face when the pick up a piece of meat I cut and the next week there come back and ask for it again . I guess what I'm really asken is what do I put on my résumé cutter in training, apperitice cutter I just a out right cutter thanks again guys
When I came up through the ranks in the late 60s I worked for a 4 store chain of Independents that had a reputation for the best meat in the Philadelphia area and as one of the fastest growing Independents in the region. I went from cart boy to bagger to grocery clerk to frozen food clerk to frozen food manager to deli clerk to deli manager to meat apprentice. Basically every time I asked for more money they gave me a new position that paid more, and I asked a lot. -). Then the union got in and the company started struggling. It was purchased by another chain of independents that had 11 stores. Becoming a journeyman was based on completing your two year apprenticeship and passing a cutting test. The new company recognized that I had performed well and asked if I would like to be a second man in another store. They had a meet with the meat manager, myself, the president of our local, and our meat supervisor and they had me break down a beef hindquarter and process it into retail cuts. Of course my manager already knew I could do that as well as forequarters, calves, and lamb, and pork. The result I was made a journeyman with only one year in as an apprentice and I was promoted to Journeyman and 2nd man at a different store. It was similar for others but everyone else I knew did not get to take their test until their 2 years was up, except in cases where the company wanted to get rid of someone where they set up a test early to bounce the apprentice out of the company.
BTW, even though we were union at the time, the union was paid off, and the only way an apprentice got to learn anything above cutting chickens and cleaning the department, was to work off the clock and work evenings with another cutter where you would do his work and in return he would teach you the high skilled stuff such as working calves, etc.
Like u said my union is paid off and they don't promote any one so if there no hope for some tht love to do it and the independent place is doing prepack and don't need a cutter or there closing thank to Walmart I guess I will hope for the best and just keep doing what I been doing and thanks guys again
Btw what I a charcoal steak ??????
It is up to your Manager / Supervisor to classify you as a Journeyman Cutter. Most chains no longer have a "training program" it is just on the job experience. I consider a cutter a Journeyman when they can cut the whole counter and have good yields / proper trim / presentation. Like Shelley said, anybody can cut meat, but not everybody can cut meat that SELLS.
Charcoal steak... depends on your area of the country really and, could be a Top Blade out of the Clod, Could be a Silver Side out of the Knuckle, Could be a Rump Steak out of the Bottom Round, could be smaller portion Shoulder Steak (also called Patio sometimes).
learn all you can,,be as proficient as you can,,, apply to many different companies- and if you are a clerk- and you can cut, then you got trained without paying for any training-and yes, i know about cutting on clerks pay- i did that yrs ago-if you allow this to have a bad attitude,,, then that reduces your chances if you dont like where you are-go somewhere else, everybody has to pay their dues...one way or another
hey man, what's up. I'm sort of in a similar place in my career as you, or recently was. I'm officially a journeyman cutter because I finished five years in my union apprenticeship. I have to agree with the poster about it just being a word though. I know butchers who've been doing it for 30 years and because of their attitude they never progressed in their career and never developed the sort of pride you NEED to have to keep this trade alive as we know it and to push yourself to improve. If you know you can cut somewhat well right now, literally just say that to a prospective buisiness and offer to come in and prove it. Don't lay it on too thick because they'll lose respect for you on day one if you're dishonest about your ability. But if you know you want to do this for life and you have that fire under your a** to be as good as you can (it sounds like you do) walk in and tell them you're willing to do whatever you can to help them, you just want to learn and learn the right way. Good luck dude, and be careful too. A young guy with that spirit puts a smile on some older guys faces, and others will look down on you because that's how they are as people. Human nature lol.
Also about unions lol....you usually end up having to deal with a lot of bs to advance unless your dad was somebody or something like that. Also, if they've never seen you down at the hall or getting involved with anything, they give you the runaround a lot it seems to me. Don't totally give up on getting your union to advance you, but I would go down to your hall and face to face speak to your rep. Tell him literally I want to be a butcher, and I'm not sure I'm going anywhere with my current situation, can I possiblyget hired at a different company or if you know you can pass it ask for a cut test
