I'd say if you're a member here, then you probably care a lot about how well your shop does. But why should you? Unless you're the owner, or on a bonus program that pays you according to how much profit is made, why should you?
Most stores are doing everything they can to cut cost, including your pay, your benefits, your vacation, your holidays. Getting more clerks and less journeymen. Meanwhile, you are trying everything you can to make your boss richer. You want to increase sales volume, gross profit and lower labor.
I'm in a super nice store right now and have been for the last 11 years. I DO care, because if my workplace went out of business, then I'd have to go somewhere else and 99% of those other places suck. So that's why I care. And that's why my coworkers care. If I was at any of those sucky places (99% of other stores suck), I wouldn't give a darn. Sales down? So what? Counter went out? so what? Someone stole a case of tenderloins? So what? Profit down? So what?
I do a lot of moonlighting. Working other stores on my day off. It can really suck out there. It's better than being unemployed, of course. But if I was at any of those other stores (assuming no one gets hurt) I wouldn't care if the store burned down
I used to care so much. I thought the more I cared and the more I tried to increase sales and growth then the more likely I would be rewarded with a raise, promotion or just some respect. Big mistake
I never got any of those from the superiors. It seems that the more I care the more they take advantage of me. When I stopped caring and started this "whatever, I just want to get paid and go home attitude". Well I didn't get a raise or promotion then either, but I did notice people were starting to suck up to me.
In the REAL world most people don't get ahead by working hard and being overly knowledgable in their field. Not from my experience anyway.
Look at all the "25 watters" running things. They get promoted by seniority (does not mean smart), brown nosing or back stabbing and basically just caring about THEMSELVES not the company.
From my experience the hardest workers who care about the company are the biggest door mats. My advice is DON'T care. Just do your job and go home. If you want a promotion be good friends with the owner/manager. Take him out for a beer, learn his kids names, thats how you get ahead in the real world.
I used to tell me crew you don't need to be loyal to the company, but you're an idiot if you are not loyal to your paycheck.
Burgermeister wrote:
I'd say if you're a member here, then you probably care a lot about how well your shop does. But why should you? Unless you're the owner, or on a bonus program that pays you according to how much profit is made, why should you?
Most stores are doing everything they can to cut cost, including your pay, your benefits, your vacation, your holidays. Getting more clerks and less journeymen. Meanwhile, you are trying everything you can to make your boss richer. You want to increase sales volume, gross profit and lower labor.
I'm in a super nice store right now and have been for the last 11 years. I DO care, because if my workplace went out of business, then I'd have to go somewhere else and 99% of those other places suck. So that's why I care. And that's why my coworkers care. If I was at any of those sucky places (99% of other stores suck), I wouldn't give a darn. Sales down? So what? Counter went out? so what? Someone stole a case of tenderloins? So what? Profit down? So what?
I do a lot of moonlighting. Working other stores on my day off. It can really suck out there. It's better than being unemployed, of course. But if I was at any of those other stores (assuming no one gets hurt) I wouldn't care if the store burned down
I used to tell me crew you don't need to be loyal to the company, but you're an idiot if you are not loyal to your paycheck.
there's a big difference between the two. Being loyal to my check is common sense things like working hard, coming in on time. And showing up sober, well rested, well fed, knives already sharp. not leaving early. Not sneaking a cigarette while emptying garbage, not carrying (using) personal cell phone. Being flexible. Willing to fill in when someone's sick, come in early or stay late if something happens.
I think most of us here do these things.
But if your company doesn't hire enough people to keep the counter full, then why should you care if there are holes in it? Why have a heart attack over it? This is one area I'd like to improve in.
-- Edited by Burgermeister on Monday 7th of July 2014 01:43:58 PM
I will agree to some extent. Many of my fellow meat managers would work off the clock in order to get everything done. This was a violation of our contract as well as state law and I would refuse to do it. Management did not like me for it, but I was treated with the respect I demanded while the "off the clockers" were continuously abused and treated like the door mats you mention.
fdarn wrote:
I used to care so much. I thought the more I cared and the more I tried to increase sales and growth then the more likely I would be rewarded with a raise, promotion or just some respect. Big mistake I never got any of those from the superiors. It seems that the more I care the more they take advantage of me. When I stopped caring and started this "whatever, I just want to get paid and go home attitude". Well I didn't get a raise or promotion then either, but I did notice people were starting to suck up to me. In the REAL world most people don't get ahead by working hard and being overly knowledgable in their field. Not from my experience anyway. Look at all the "25 watters" running things. They get promoted by seniority (does not mean smart), brown nosing or back stabbing and basically just caring about THEMSELVES not the company. From my experience the hardest workers who care about the company are the biggest door mats. My advice is DON'T care. Just do your job and go home. If you want a promotion be good friends with the owner/manager. Take him out for a beer, learn his kids names, thats how you get ahead in the real world.
I would add that being loyal to your paycheck also means shopping where you work.
I experienced the regular cutting of hours too. My department's hours were cut from over 500 per week down to about 215, yet they still wanted 10% annual sales increases! I left with a case half empty (or worse) more often than not, but I would also offer to stay for overtime, and all company policies regarding freshness, coding, sanitation, were always complied with 100%, at the expense of variety in presentation though. Non-compliance with these policies could get you terminated, union or not. An empty case could not get you fired as long as you followed policy and procedures.
To management I coined what my crew called "Henry's Law", that the volume of business will always come down to what the help can handle. I managed departments that did $100k to $150k per week in fresh meat alone, 1980's dollars. Today 25 years later these departments rarely break $40k per week.
The slashing of hours contributed greatly to me deciding to leave the trade.
there's a big difference between the two. Being loyal to my check is common sense things like working hard, coming in on time. And showing up sober, well rested, well fed, knives already sharp. not leaving early. Not sneaking a cigarette while emptying garbage, not carrying (using) personal cell phone. Being flexible. Willing to fill in when someone's sick, come in early or stay late if something happens.
I think most of us here do these things.
But if your company doesn't hire enough people to keep the counter full, then why should you care if there are holes in it? Why have a heart attack over it? This is one area I'd like to improve in.
-- Edited by Burgermeister on Monday 7th of July 2014 01:43:58 PM
I would add that being loyal to your paycheck also means shopping where you work.
That's a great topic!
How do you all feel about this? I think it's ridiculous. One time around 1984, the company owner wrote an article about this in the very nice monthly magazine that we all got in the mail. He listed several reasons why we should shop at his stores. I still have it, but it would take an entire day to find it amongst the hundreds of other issues. No way would I do that. They were all stupid suggestions anyway. Just ways to make the boss richer while he's often thinking of ways to cut your pay. At the same company, back when we were allowed to have coffee in the meat dept, the owner was not trusting that we paid for the sugar and coffee. He threw a fit one day. So what they did was to buy the store brand at another store. "Alpha Beta" Sugar instead of C & H, etc. LOL @ him. Anyway, it could be a little awkward being seen by your customers while shopping at other stores.
I think maybe you should shop union if you're union. Don't support chains that are killing the trade. Wal-Mart, Target, etc. But to shop at your store? Kidding? I do shop at my store a lot. 1: because I'm already there. 2: Because it's (meat, produce) often better. But if I'm off, I really don't want to be at work on my day off. I'll go somewhere else. Unless I have issues with them, I go to the store that is close to me, no matter what the name is.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. How can I expect my customers to buy meat from my shop if it's not good enough for me and my family?
Suppose everyone decided to do what you suggest? How long would you have a job?
The coffee thing does not bother me. At every chain where I worked (3 different ones) we were required to tape the receipt to the item for every item kept on the premises, and the receipts had to be initialed by one of the store managers. Of course since I changed careers, the two employers I have worked for provide coffee to the employees at no charge.
Burgermeister wrote:
That's a great topic!
How do you all feel about this? I think it's ridiculous. One time around 1984, the company owner wrote an article about this in the very nice monthly magazine that we all got in the mail. He listed several reasons why we should shop at his stores. I still have it, but it would take an entire day to find it amongst the hundreds of other issues. No way would I do that. They were all stupid suggestions anyway. Just ways to make the boss richer while he's often thinking of ways to cut your pay. At the same company, back when we were allowed to have coffee in the meat dept, the owner was not trusting that we paid for the sugar and coffee. He threw a fit one day. So what they did was to buy the store brand at another store. "Alpha Beta" Sugar instead of C & H, etc. LOL @ him. Anyway, it could be a little awkward being seen by your customers while shopping at other stores.
I think maybe you should shop union if you're union. Don't support chains that are killing the trade. Wal-Mart, Target, etc. But to shop at your store? Kidding? I do shop at my store a lot. 1: because I'm already there. 2: Because it's (meat, produce) often better. But if I'm off, I really don't want to be at work on my day off. I'll go somewhere else. Unless I have issues with them, I go to the store that is close to me, no matter what the name is.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. How can I expect my customers to buy meat from my shop if it's not good enough for me and my family?
Suppose everyone decided to do what you suggest? How long would you have a job?
The coffee thing does not bother me. At every chain where I worked (3 different ones) we were required to tape the receipt to the item for every item kept on the premises, and the receipts had to be initialed by one of the store managers. Of course since I changed careers, the two employers I have worked for provide coffee to the employees at no charge.
Meat may de different. Maybe. If you own the store. But not if you don't own the store. You said loyal to where you work, not just the single department in a store where you work. If you're truly loyal to where you work, loyal the way you suggest, then you shouldn't buy toilet paper, canned soup, beer, cigarettes, razors, lottery tickets, or anything else at another place of business. You should drive 5 miles to your store rather than half a mile down the street to buy the whipping cream you need for the pumpkin pie for your house guests that are arriving in 1 hour.
I'd say that if you work in a mom and pop grocery store, and you love it there, then you probably shouldn't shop at the other mom and pop grocery store on the other side of town. That would look bad. Not so for large chains.
Shopping elsewhere isn't disloyal in my opinion. Giving away secret recipes/airing dirty laundry in public is. Telling about the meat that fell on the floor that they still sold is disloyal. Telling people to never shop at your store because of x, y, or z is disloyal.
After you retire, should you continue to be loyal to the store that was so loyal to you?
I mentioned meat specifically because that was near and dear to me, but I meant putting all my grocery dollars back into the store where I worked. I also had my wife buy only out of the case, nothing "from the back" as long as it was available in the case. We moved a lot of meat and that was a good way to ensure my cutters were always following spec. And before anyone asks, yes I walked the case several times a day, but with a 24/7/365 operation in stores doing a million dollars or more per week, you cannot see everything. I "retired" from the business and changed careers in 1995. I no longer see the need to shop there especially since my current job is 600 miles from there, but I do try to patronize union shops.
Burgermeister wrote:
jimhenry2000 wrote:
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. How can I expect my customers to buy meat from my shop if it's not good enough for me and my family?
Suppose everyone decided to do what you suggest? How long would you have a job?
The coffee thing does not bother me. At every chain where I worked (3 different ones) we were required to tape the receipt to the item for every item kept on the premises, and the receipts had to be initialed by one of the store managers. Of course since I changed careers, the two employers I have worked for provide coffee to the employees at no charge.
Meat may de different. Maybe. If you own the store. But not if you don't own the store. You said loyal to where you work, not just the single department in a store where you work. If you're truly loyal to where you work, loyal the way you suggest, then you shouldn't buy toilet paper, canned soup, beer, cigarettes, razors, lottery tickets, or anything else at another place of business. You should drive 5 miles to your store rather than half a mile down the street to buy the whipping cream you need for the pumpkin pie for your house guests that are arriving in 1 hour.
I'd say that if you work in a mom and pop grocery store, and you love it there, then you probably shouldn't shop at the other mom and pop grocery store on the other side of town. That would look bad. Not so for large chains.
Shopping elsewhere isn't disloyal in my opinion. Giving away secret recipes/airing dirty laundry in public is. Telling about the meat that fell on the floor that they still sold is disloyal. Telling people to never shop at your store because of x, y, or z is disloyal.
After you retire, should you continue to be loyal to the store that was so loyal to you?
I do believe the Union is neccessary to protect workers from being abused or taken advantage of by the company, but at the same time I think they also enable to workers to take advantage of the company.
Living in Michigan I often hear about how the unions are the real reason for the decay of Michigan's auto industry. I don't know how much truth is in that but I do know a lot of people who worked for GM and some of them would scam work all the time.
For example my exgirlfriend's dad had a little thing going with a buddy he worked with at GM. Every other day they switched. One would stay home while the other clocked in for him. I heard that things like that were rampant.
Also her dad did his own oil changes in his garage. It was my understanding that he always got his new oil filters from work. He just took them home. He would tell me that as if it was the most natural thing in the world.
When you have that kind of thing going on with 1000s of employees any company would eventually go under. But they can not just fire these employees. They have to go through the procedures that the union sets.
I am sure many of us who worked in Union Shops have had instances where we really wanted to see some toxic employee fired, but that employee was never fired because of union reasons.
When I worked at Giant I know of an employee who cussed out 3 different customers at three different occassions. All of them complained before he was finally fired and he didn't just slip up. He got right in their face and let them have it.
I have mixed feelings about unions. They can be good or bad for business. I feel with out the union people feel better prepared to do a good job in order to keep their jobs. With the union they feel too safe and comfortable, but then will be more likely to stay and become experienced workers. However they may also just become lazy.
I do believe the Union is neccessary to protect workers from being abused or taken advantage of by the company, but at the same time I think they also enable to workers to take advantage of the company.
Living in Michigan I often hear about how the unions are the real reason for the decay of Michigan's auto industry. I don't know how much truth is in that but I do know a lot of people who worked for GM and some of them would scam work all the time.
For example my exgirlfriend's dad had a little thing going with a buddy he worked with at GM. Every other day they switched. One would stay home while the other clocked in for him. I heard that things like that were rampant.
Also her dad did his own oil changes in his garage. It was my understanding that he always got his new oil filters from work. He just took them home. He would tell me that as if it was the most natural thing in the world.
When you have that kind of thing going on with 1000s of employees any company would eventually go under. But they can not just fire these employees. They have to go through the procedures that the union sets.
I am sure many of us who worked in Union Shops have had instances where we really wanted to see some toxic employee fired, but that employee was never fired because of union reasons.
When I worked at Giant I know of an employee who cussed out 3 different customers at three different occassions. All of them complained before he was finally fired and he didn't just slip up. He got right in their face and let them have it.
I have mixed feelings about unions. They can be good or bad for business. I feel with out the union people feel better prepared to do a good job in order to keep their jobs. With the union they feel too safe and comfortable, but then will be more likely to stay and become experienced workers. However they may also just become lazy.
In my union and probably most unions, stealing will mean on the spot termination with no chance of getting your job back. You can screw up in so many other ways and keep your job, but stealing time or stuff is different. Fighting too. That's two things they cant help you with. Sometimes being intoxicated can mean termination too. But I've also seen people get a month free vacation for it. They just admit that they have a problem and then they get to go to a clinic for a month, which is paid for.
Punching another persons time card could mean instant termination too. Its sad that this occurs.
One problem with being in a union is no matter how good you are, you won't get more money for it.
For me, unions have been good. Decent pay, I have 5 weeks vacation, good medical, dental & vision. A retirement, several holidays including birthday, anniversary, "floater", 8 days sick leave (which I don't use).
I too have mixed feelings about unions. I have been successful in both union and non-union environments. When the non-union independent chain that I started with became union, I refused to join until the union goons confronted me and showed me the clause in the contract that said I would be terminated if I did not join. One of the best reasons IMO that unions are needed is that no one has yet figured out how to legislate *******s out of the workplace. Apologies if I have recounted this story before, but back in 1981 I left my job as a Meat Manager at a union shop independent to take a job as a cutter at a much larger chain (Pathmark) in the same union as it paid 50 cents/hour more. Even though I was a union member already I still had the mandatory 60 day probationary period before I had union protection. The company told me that if I was going to be late or out sick during that 60 days to not even bother to call as I would be terminated. Their reasoning was that if you would miss time when you did not have union protection, what would you be like once you did. Well at that time my wife was pregnant with our first child, and my meat manager was an *******. As low man I was on the night shift. My wife went into labor so I called my boss to explain the situation that I had to take her to the hospital to have a baby. He told me that was no excuse and that if I was not on shift at midnight, I was fired. I told him that if all went well and she had the baby I would then come in. He told me that women have babies all the time and my wife should take a cab to the hospital. I told him I was not doing that so he told me I was fired. Well as luck would have it that day was my 60th day and since I was on night shift, the shift I missed was my 61st day so the union blocked my termination! That's my best union experience but I'll also say that back in the day when some employers actually valued the skill set of our trade, that the mere existence of unions also helped with the pay of meat cutters in non-union shops. I don't think that is true any more though. There is some truth to unions protecting dead wood, but in most cases that I experienced, when someone who should have been fired was not, it was due to poor management. There is a specific "progressive discipline" path that must be followed to address and document a problem worker. It may vary by company and contract but if is followed correctly you can move someone out. It might include verbal warning, written warning, 3 day suspension, then termination, but the documentation must be thorough all along the way. I saw many cases where management did not do it properly.
Let me also say that in my entire 28 year career in the meat business, every single president of my Local, finished his career in federal prison.
Jim
fdarn wrote:
I do believe the Union is neccessary to protect workers from being abused or taken advantage of by the company, but at the same time I think they also enable to workers to take advantage of the company.
Living in Michigan I often hear about how the unions are the real reason for the decay of Michigan's auto industry. I don't know how much truth is in that but I do know a lot of people who worked for GM and some of them would scam work all the time.
For example my exgirlfriend's dad had a little thing going with a buddy he worked with at GM. Every other day they switched. One would stay home while the other clocked in for him. I heard that things like that were rampant.
Also her dad did his own oil changes in his garage. It was my understanding that he always got his new oil filters from work. He just took them home. He would tell me that as if it was the most natural thing in the world.
When you have that kind of thing going on with 1000s of employees any company would eventually go under. But they can not just fire these employees. They have to go through the procedures that the union sets.
I am sure many of us who worked in Union Shops have had instances where we really wanted to see some toxic employee fired, but that employee was never fired because of union reasons.
When I worked at Giant I know of an employee who cussed out 3 different customers at three different occassions. All of them complained before he was finally fired and he didn't just slip up. He got right in their face and let them have it.
I have mixed feelings about unions. They can be good or bad for business. I feel with out the union people feel better prepared to do a good job in order to keep their jobs. With the union they feel too safe and comfortable, but then will be more likely to stay and become experienced workers. However they may also just become lazy.
This was my experience also. Stealing any product was instant termination. Stealing time was a little more complicated. If you worked off the clock it was stealing from your fellow employees. The company didn't care about that but if an employee did a good job of documenting that people could be fired and some were. Stealing from the company by punching someone else's time card was something the company cared very much about. I once saw about half the entire crew in one store fired for that. The meat manager, 2nd man, 2 cutters and 2 or 3 wrappers. They filed a grievance and it took about 8 months to complete and in the end they all got their jobs back with full back pay. Since back then everyone got 8-12 hours over time per week plus 8 hours every Sunday at double time and a half, they all got a very nice 8 month paid vacation! That's a shame as I really believe they were guilty but, again, the company dropped the ball on proper documentation.
Burgermeister wrote:
In my union and probably most unions, stealing will mean on the spot termination with no chance of getting your job back. You can screw up in so many other ways and keep your job, but stealing time or stuff is different. Fighting too. That's two things they cant help you with. Sometimes being intoxicated can mean termination too. But I've also seen people get a month free vacation for it. They just admit that they have a problem and then they get to go to a clinic for a month, which is paid for.
Punching another persons time card could mean instant termination too. Its sad that this occurs.
One problem with being in a union is no matter how good you are, you won't get more money for it.
For me, unions have been good. Decent pay, I have 5 weeks vacation, good medical, dental & vision. A retirement, several holidays including birthday, anniversary, "floater", 8 days sick leave (which I don't use).
I've cared more than just about anyone else in any market I have worked. Where did it get me? A good reputation and a sense of pride in my work, that's about it.
I've cared more than just about anyone else in any market I have worked. Where did it get me? A good reputation and a sense of pride in my work, that's about it.
I was never called in sick and was never late for the 20 years I worked at my previous job. One guy told me "that and two dollars will get me a cup of coffee". He was right. Plus maybe the thigs you mentioned.
Wow...just wow! By reading all of this I've come to think that you guys have worked for a bad company or two and have been screwed over once or twice. And I'm sure it's happened. My lead cutter talks the way you guys do. He wants to care, but he's been burned before and still doesn't realize the fresh start he has. He always talks about it and can't seem to let it go.
I think for most of us, we like what we do. If you don't, you need to leave. Don't suffer. But I like what I do. I do have options, but I keep on doing this because it suits me. I know I'm never going to get rich, but that's ok. When you have enough to pay the bills and maybe a little extra to put towards a hobby, stop focusing on money and focus on the quality of life that's within your control. Bitching won't do anyone any good.
We all have goals to meet and I try. When they're unrealistic, I tell the meat gods it's not going to happen and for them to let me know when to buy a pair of rubber boots, but I do try. They are accurate most of the time. I have to admit, our culture isn't very corporate, though we are structured that way, and it makes a world of difference. The meat supervisor knows every meat cutter, wrapper, and deli clerks name. Even the RVP knows most everyone that's been there for 4 or 5 years. There's definitely a family feel to our 100+ store 'chain.'
So why should I not care? They care about me. They want everyone to do well, but not all will succeed. It's pretty tough to get fired. Follow general rules for any job: don't steal, call in all of the time, show up late of the time, don't be a dick to your fellow employees, etc. I come to work everyday ready to take care of business, and when I'm off, I'm OFF. I don't talk or think about work or even show up to shop. I think everyone has said the same in some way or another, and all of us respect that. Sometimes people will text or call me, and I simply tell them, "We will talk about it tomorrow."
The bottom line to all this rambling is that if your market isn't a family, it probably won't do well and no one will care regardless--the paycheck mentality. How well we as individuals can respect each other and get along will make a world of difference. How else can you keep help at sub-par wages? You won't. These people knew what the pay was before they accepted the job. They will only stay if they like what they do and the people they work with. Hell, it's why I stay. Care about your crew, and they will care about you. There is no I in TEAM.
