In your opinion, is it ever OK to open a vacuum sealed package of meat and set it/drop it in the bone barrel to drain off the liquid before putting it on the cutting table?
Notice I used the word "ever". Some bone barrels are less clean than others. Some are never cleaned, others are always cleaned. Some have fresh clean beef fat and bone in them, some might have rotten chicken in them, some might be used for a spittoon.
the correct procedure in opening a sub-primal from a vac seal is this.......
run the back of your knife tip against the plastic, set knife down and open sub primal over a burger lug....let purge drain in trimmings be sure not to compress burger from grinder head, or wrap too tight as it may bleed a bit (this is logic I heard from a meat manager many moons ago)
Id never open a sub primal near a bone barrel-although there are special covers to place on barrels -just to drain the purge
One method I've learned up here to purge that I have absolutely fallen in love with is this. Take one lug, drill a ton of holes in it. Place this lug into a lug without holes. Put primals in this to purge. Works great and much easier on clean up.
Well I don't do that at all, and won't let that happen.Like someone said cut the plastic on the block,then take the meat out pull the bag into the can beside the block.do this for liver to and never have a mess.everyone in our shop[ pretty wells does the same.
i have mt 3 compartment sink right against the wall by my saw, i use that. If not, then i put a platter on top of my saw and open then on top of that, and drain the blood off in to the sink every so often. Heck, we dont even use bone can anymore. We sell 10lb bags of chicken leg quarters, we just fill the empty box up and then dump it in the compost bin at night.
Uh oh! In my day we ALWAYS drained meat in the fat can! NOT the bone can which was much smaller. However we did maintain a separate can for throwaways so we did not drain on that can. We were a pretty hgh volume operation, $80k to $100k a week in fresh meat alone which did not count fish, lunch meats or prepared meats like hotdogs, canned hams, bacon,or deli, etc so the fat in the fat can was fresh. Our weekly fat pick up was about 2000lb fat and 450 lbs bone. We used plastic liners in our cans plus they were cleaned with the blitz gun (pressure washer) after each pick up. I don't see an issue here. Am I missing something?
Finally!
Thank you Jim.
I remember back in the late 1970s through mid 1980s we drained lots of stuff in the bone barrels. Standard practice. We never had separate barrels for bone and fat. Never heard of that. Everything went in the same barrels. Draining was a judgement call. (Hopefully) you wouldn't drain good meat on top of rotten chicken or tobacco that some idiot spit out. Like the famous meat book* says "there's no black and white in the meat business. We're all different shades of gray"
I'll drain a piece of meat onto clean fat in a clean barrel because it keeps the table clean. It keeps the floor cleaner. And you don't need so many dirty towels on the blocks. I can work all week without using one towel (while cutting). I use one towel for cleaning signs. We have a full service case and the signs get cleaned every morning.
A pet peeve of mine is having too many dirty towels laying around that messy cutters use to wipe up the liquid they spilled all over the table. They look ugly and attract flies. Also, it's discourteous to your coworkers to leave towels for others to pick up. Sure, it's easy. "Don't sweat the small stuff", but it's comparable to not flushing the toilet.
*I forget the title, maybe "Prime Rip?"
Oh, about the towels: I guess a lot of us don't use them anymore, so that won't be an issue in some places. They have one in the sanitizer bucket for show and that's all.
-- Edited by Burgermeister on Monday 22nd of October 2012 11:17:14 AM
Uh oh! In my day we ALWAYS drained meat in the fat can! NOT the bone can which was much smaller. However we did maintain a separate can for throwaways so we did not drain on that can. We were a pretty hgh volume operation, $80k to $100k a week in fresh meat alone which did not count fish, lunch meats or prepared meats like hotdogs, canned hams, bacon,or deli, etc so the fat in the fat can was fresh. Our weekly fat pick up was about 2000lb fat and 450 lbs bone. We used plastic liners in our cans plus they were cleaned with the blitz gun (pressure washer) after each pick up. I don't see an issue here. Am I missing something?
I bet you guys pouring purge over your fat have a lot of ground beef re-wraps every morning!
I have never done this personally, but have heard stories from older managers of all kinds of things going into grinds. Purge from beef, pork, chicken, beef head meat, chicken livers, pork fat, ice, and the greatest of all "dynamite".
I am sure some of this still goes on in some of the independent stores out there.
Jimhenry is right, the inspectors, hated any towels or rags,,even in a sanitizer or bleach /water mix they claim they are bacteria holders, much like a mop head.
You can ask your own inspectors about it,,,but we couldnt use rags-even if only once
nate- the use of dynamite hasnt been around since thhe 70's and i'm willing to bet most independent stores dont do much of what you mentioned anymore- a bad reputation goes thru a town like wildfire-can kill a store.
years ago, I had one guy who had hunting dogs, and he asked for scraps, and he was willing to pay- I use to save the blood/purge and mix(grind) with pure fat trimmings and sell to him for his dogs- from that we actually tried forming burgers out of them, cooking them, and selling for doggie treats- and doggie meatballs- they sold well (with a sign 100% meat scraps, no fillers or binders) we found that people will buy stuff like this for their dogs- my supervisors would come in....usually a vp and three other supervisors .... I use to push the limits with whacky stuff all the time, and slapped for it-but it all depended, on if the supervisors, worked there way up thru the ranks or was a college manager-
I encourage all the meat managers I deal with (independents)to be very creative
Jimhenry is right, the inspectors, hated any towels or rags,,even in a sanitizer or bleach /water mix they claim they are bacteria holders, much like a mop head.
You can ask your own inspectors about it,,,but we couldnt use rags-even if only once.....
If that's true, does that mean it's wrong to take twice rewrapped rotten stinky slimy chicken that's been soaking @ room temperature in the sink for 3 hours and dry it on a filthy previously worn smock from the hamper before you transfer it to the cat litter (type) container of dry rub "marinade" powder that has chunks of powder formed from the previous wet rotten chicken?
When I started as an apprentice for an independent, circa 1969, there was a crushed ice machine and a can of dynamite next to the grinder. That stuff NEVER happened once I worked for a big chain.
When I worked for the big chain (Pathmark) we were required to reduce chill pack chicken prior to the sell-by date, and throw it out once it hit the sell by date. I knew several meat managers who were fired for getting caught doing otherwise, and we were a union shop. The kicker was that the same chill pack chicken that we required a 5 day sell-by on, our competition required a 12 day sell-by on the exact same items. The purpose was to ensure that after the customer took our product home it had the maximum possible life in it even after expiration. This did require constant education of our customers to get them to know why our poultry expired so much sooner than other companies.
Jim
Burgermeister wrote:
Mainemeatman wrote:
Jimhenry is right, the inspectors, hated any towels or rags,,even in a sanitizer or bleach /water mix they claim they are bacteria holders, much like a mop head.
You can ask your own inspectors about it,,,but we couldnt use rags-even if only once.....
If that's true, does that mean it's wrong to take twice rewrapped rotten stinky slimy chicken that's been soaking @ room temperature in the sink for 3 hours and dry it on a filthy previously worn smock from the hamper before you transfer it to the cat litter (type) container of dry rub "marinade" powder that has chunks of powder formed from the previous wet rotten chicken?
When I worked for the big chain (Pathmark) we were required to reduce chill pack chicken prior to the sell-by date, and throw it out once it hit the sell by date. I knew several meat managers who were fired for getting caught doing otherwise, and we were a union shop. The kicker was that the same chill pack chicken that we required a 5 day sell-by on, our competition required a 12 day sell-by on the exact same items. The purpose was to ensure that after the customer took our product home it had the maximum possible life in it even after expiration. This did require constant education of our customers to get them to know why our poultry expired so much sooner than other companies.
Jim
Didn't people often find ways around the 5 day code rule? Did your chicken always come in already priced and dated? If you priced it yourself, do you give it 5 days from right now, or 5 from after you received it? If it was on ad, at the end of the ad, did you put it back at regular price and at the same time, give it 5 new days? Sometimes a store has it's main brand of chicken and also a second brand. The second brand is usually large value packs. Often you have to price/date them. I'd think that most of the time, that item will get 5 days from now and not 5 days from when you received it. What if you want to make your own Value Pack from an item you have too many of?
BTW, we don't have packaged chicken. It's all boxed with ice. We bone our own breasts. There's no date on the box. Our scale puts today's date on the packages when we sell them. We keep inventory low. We have a lot of help and we (mostly) have people who are reasonably intelligent and don't over cut.
The 2, 3, or whatever day rule, for beef and pork is really crazy. I mean it sits in boxes for up to 5+ weeks (hopefully less), but it's weird to have a 3 day rule on meat that may be 2 days old (in the bag) or 35 days old (in the bag). I've seen 6 week old meat turn bad (color) in a few hours, but it still gets the same 2 or 3 days. If your store permits grinding or steaking yesterday's beef roasts, then they get a brand new 2-3 day date, right?
ice pack chicken?? I like cvp pack,,,but not ice pack, not just the slimy chicken juice everywhere, the ice would leave marks on the chicken skin..
cvp (bulk, usually in 40lb boxes) in plastic, usually have a 14 day code....meaning under ideal conditions it should last 14 days from pack date... now, depending on your supplier,,their are different delivery specs..
tray pack chicken is so much easier, and keep in mind,,, volume cures all-you have high volume, you turn the products quicker, less worry about dates..
in lower volume stores,,I like cvp bulk legs,,,they can be legs, drums and thighs...so you have flexibility,,,also, I love to cook chicken parts, when they are close dated, sprinkle some bbq seasoning on ,,,cook and set in warmer,,,keep a meat tag on for sales and margin credit-if no warmer,,sell cold,,,,
with any poultry, keep this in mind, the chicken will last much longer in the cooler than the meatcase (3-4 defrost cycles a day in meatcase) and dont overfill case
when i was mt manager for a chain store, there was a big debate for pre-pack chicken, do you match the date on package ?? or do you give it 5 days, no matter the date on the package.. meat managers wanted to match the date,,,but because of defrost cycles, and temps of the cases,,,(and if they had curtains at night)
most of the time, the chicken didnt hold up to the date on the package..
I think now the chicken gets soaked in a slight brine,,,,more so now,,than years ago...so i'd say it does seem to last a bit longer..
We used only chill pack chicken that came in pre-packed, priced, and coded with the sell-by date. I don't think I have seen bulk ice-pack chicken since 1980. Yes you had to be of top of your game with ordering and inventory control.
ice pack chicken?? I like cvp pack,,,but not ice pack, not just the slimy chicken juice everywhere, the ice would leave marks on the chicken skin..
cvp (bulk, usually in 40lb boxes) in plastic, usually have a 14 day code....meaning under ideal conditions it should last 14 days from pack date... now, depending on your supplier,,their are different delivery specs..
tray pack chicken is so much easier, and keep in mind,,, volume cures all-you have high volume, you turn the products quicker, less worry about dates..
in lower volume stores,,I like cvp bulk legs,,,they can be legs, drums and thighs...so you have flexibility,,,also, I love to cook chicken parts, when they are close dated, sprinkle some bbq seasoning on ,,,cook and set in warmer,,,keep a meat tag on for sales and margin credit-if no warmer,,sell cold,,,,
with any poultry, keep this in mind, the chicken will last much longer in the cooler than the meatcase (3-4 defrost cycles a day in meatcase) and dont overfill case
when i was mt manager for a chain store, there was a big debate for pre-pack chicken, do you match the date on package ?? or do you give it 5 days, no matter the date on the package.. meat managers wanted to match the date,,,but because of defrost cycles, and temps of the cases,,,(and if they had curtains at night)
most of the time, the chicken didnt hold up to the date on the package..
I think now the chicken gets soaked in a slight brine,,,,more so now,,than years ago...so i'd say it does seem to last a bit longer..
Oh about beef. We were required to put the next day as a sell by on beef. If it came back as a re-wrap we would re-work it then it was only allowed same day code. However we were allowed to grind them, except we of course were not allowed to re-grind beef. That too was a capital offense (termination).
These rules were tough but I did not disagree with them. Back in the 80s before A&P bought us we (Pathmark) had the highest sales per square foot of any chain in the USA. Many stores did more than $1 million per week in the top weeks, and many of our meat depts did $100,000 or more per week in fresh meat sales and that did NOT include frozen items, canned hams, luncheon meats, hot dogs, bacon or fish, which were sold in separate departments.
Of course once they started slashing hours, the volume always came down to the level that the help could handle! My dept was cut from over 500 hours per week to a little more than 200 and then we were lucky to hit $60k in a week. This is all in 1980 dollars.
Mainemeatman wrote:
ice pack chicken?? I like cvp pack,,,but not ice pack, not just the slimy chicken juice everywhere, the ice would leave marks on the chicken skin..
cvp (bulk, usually in 40lb boxes) in plastic, usually have a 14 day code....meaning under ideal conditions it should last 14 days from pack date... now, depending on your supplier,,their are different delivery specs..
tray pack chicken is so much easier, and keep in mind,,, volume cures all-you have high volume, you turn the products quicker, less worry about dates..
in lower volume stores,,I like cvp bulk legs,,,they can be legs, drums and thighs...so you have flexibility,,,also, I love to cook chicken parts, when they are close dated, sprinkle some bbq seasoning on ,,,cook and set in warmer,,,keep a meat tag on for sales and margin credit-if no warmer,,sell cold,,,,
with any poultry, keep this in mind, the chicken will last much longer in the cooler than the meatcase (3-4 defrost cycles a day in meatcase) and dont overfill case
when i was mt manager for a chain store, there was a big debate for pre-pack chicken, do you match the date on package ?? or do you give it 5 days, no matter the date on the package.. meat managers wanted to match the date,,,but because of defrost cycles, and temps of the cases,,,(and if they had curtains at night)
most of the time, the chicken didnt hold up to the date on the package..
I think now the chicken gets soaked in a slight brine,,,,more so now,,than years ago...so i'd say it does seem to last a bit longer..
sorry to disappoint anyone but my barrel is parked right on the edge of the cutting block so If I am opening a messy porkloin for example I always pull them out of the cryovac package and hold them over the barrell until the juices run off them. I hate having messy juices on the floor..yeah I know what kind of butcher am I huh? No I don't actually set them down into the barrel but hold them up a few inches above the rim and yes I had people holler at me because they are afraid I might drop it in there. I haven't dropped one yet and until I do they got nothing to whine about.
we use a plastic drain trap that sits over the bone barrel, it is white and you just open bags in it and all the purge goes down the hole. you can see it hanging on the wall in the back of the shop in one of my meatcase pics.
